Front suspension kit - VF
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- Ace Dropshot
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 18 8:57 am
- Location: Glasgow
Front suspension kit - VF
Hello all.
I need to have my front suspension and steering rebuilt on my VF Valiant. There is a bunch of worn-out kit to replace.
I recall a custom adjustable kit for the VF/VG that allowed the front set-up to be installed with relative ease (i.e. without lifting block or dismantling around). I can't find this online anymore. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Thanks
I need to have my front suspension and steering rebuilt on my VF Valiant. There is a bunch of worn-out kit to replace.
I recall a custom adjustable kit for the VF/VG that allowed the front set-up to be installed with relative ease (i.e. without lifting block or dismantling around). I can't find this online anymore. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Thanks
Aussie Chrysler VF Valiant "Scottish Val"
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
Mmm not heard of that
its a 2 weekend job of skinned knuckles, sore knees and swearing
its an A body with unique RHD lower balljoints idler and pitman arm
all the rest is as per 1968 Dodge dart
and of course the same stuff inside the steering box, just configured to be RHD and in a special RHD case.
suggest
aussie lower joints
aussie pitman and idler
moog or NOS mopar upper joints. If they need changeing? they probably just need grease. suggest a good blast through with the cheepest greese you can find then fill em with good stuff. amazing how nice they then feel.
aussie or Moog lower and upper bushes. i got Mackay rubber from OZ but moog ok as well.
moog improved strut rod bushes (ignore anything in the manual and use the instructions in the box)
and any brand bump stops upper and lower nipple for the top and a square thing with ridge in the middle for the bottom
track rod ends: Any joints/ends should have the press fit top hat seals not balljoint balloon/boot type used on modern stuff.
New A body upper arm cam bolts and washers make life easier
this involves taking it all off and putting it back on
will need as a minimum
1) grease gun filled ideally with a heavy duty sodium or barium based grease MARFAC or Mopar multi mileage lube if you can find either in small tubes. both just sold in the US or huge 40 and 80 gallon drums these days. Or speak to local supplier and get something less 1950s and of equivelent style. just sticky waterproof and very very heavy duty, no matter if it tends to juice out oil when stressed.
1) decent trolley jack
1) balljoint socket long 1/2 inch drive and a bit of scaffold pole if you have to do the upper joints
1) press type ball joint splitter
1) masons hammer 1 other big hammer or an anvil or concrete block
1) upper bush puller/press
1) handlebar clamp off a bmx or a torsion bar clamp for knocking the toriosn bars back
1) friendly engineering shop to push lower bushes onto lower arm spindles, remove old lower bushes and press the complete spindle and new bush combined into arm. You will probably need a grinder to carefully remove from the lower arm spindles the sized on steel inners from the old set of bushes.
weld a washer into the outers that are still in the arms and get them pressed or pulled out.
chrysler say, use a huge thread tap, wind tap into bush outer, use it as a stop to press or pull against... tack weld a washer its easier and cheaper. a giant thread tap costs a lot.
hence engineering shop easiest solution....
I'd go all out, not to change the upper balljoints if at all possible, each upper arm can stand this abuse about twice in its life.... its the lowers that really ware.
you will need a bar to splay out the upper A arm mounts and the idler mount... they get bent and compressed in, so you can't fit the new parts
put it all togther but do nothing up beyond finger tight until its at ride height with the steering centered.
you need to get steering centred and toe in set sensibly before you move the car. otherwise the wheels will just tuck under and...... well you can't move it more than 1 foot either direction.
set the upper rear cam bolt with fat side facing outwards and front cam bolt washer with fat side facing in. this will give the car +camber and make it look daft, bit like a ballet dancer from the front, deal with this problem last when you set camber and castor.
not hard just time consuming
big hammers blocks etc
tension your clamp/press type balljoint splitter and hit the joint with big hammer to shock it into submission, you want the taper to vibrate loose.
if you can get the outer track rods undone and the idler and pitman arm off everything on the cross link can come off the car as one part and be rested on your block/anvil and be hit with a hammer to split the joint
the lower joints have an eye that is easy to aim at.. use the suspension to tension them. undo the nuts 2 turns and smack the eye with a hammer.
wind out suspension adjusters to remove tension before taking off the balljoint nuts.
it would be unwize to loose a finger or crush your hand at this point...still lots to do...
uppers can be done at the same time or with the whole stub and upper A arm off the car on your block/anvil/ back of vice
did the whole lot a couple of years back... well worth it.. even better with a steering box rebuild as well.
Dave
its a 2 weekend job of skinned knuckles, sore knees and swearing
its an A body with unique RHD lower balljoints idler and pitman arm
all the rest is as per 1968 Dodge dart
and of course the same stuff inside the steering box, just configured to be RHD and in a special RHD case.
suggest
aussie lower joints
aussie pitman and idler
moog or NOS mopar upper joints. If they need changeing? they probably just need grease. suggest a good blast through with the cheepest greese you can find then fill em with good stuff. amazing how nice they then feel.
aussie or Moog lower and upper bushes. i got Mackay rubber from OZ but moog ok as well.
moog improved strut rod bushes (ignore anything in the manual and use the instructions in the box)
and any brand bump stops upper and lower nipple for the top and a square thing with ridge in the middle for the bottom
track rod ends: Any joints/ends should have the press fit top hat seals not balljoint balloon/boot type used on modern stuff.
New A body upper arm cam bolts and washers make life easier
this involves taking it all off and putting it back on
will need as a minimum
1) grease gun filled ideally with a heavy duty sodium or barium based grease MARFAC or Mopar multi mileage lube if you can find either in small tubes. both just sold in the US or huge 40 and 80 gallon drums these days. Or speak to local supplier and get something less 1950s and of equivelent style. just sticky waterproof and very very heavy duty, no matter if it tends to juice out oil when stressed.
1) decent trolley jack
1) balljoint socket long 1/2 inch drive and a bit of scaffold pole if you have to do the upper joints
1) press type ball joint splitter
1) masons hammer 1 other big hammer or an anvil or concrete block
1) upper bush puller/press
1) handlebar clamp off a bmx or a torsion bar clamp for knocking the toriosn bars back
1) friendly engineering shop to push lower bushes onto lower arm spindles, remove old lower bushes and press the complete spindle and new bush combined into arm. You will probably need a grinder to carefully remove from the lower arm spindles the sized on steel inners from the old set of bushes.
weld a washer into the outers that are still in the arms and get them pressed or pulled out.
chrysler say, use a huge thread tap, wind tap into bush outer, use it as a stop to press or pull against... tack weld a washer its easier and cheaper. a giant thread tap costs a lot.
hence engineering shop easiest solution....
I'd go all out, not to change the upper balljoints if at all possible, each upper arm can stand this abuse about twice in its life.... its the lowers that really ware.
you will need a bar to splay out the upper A arm mounts and the idler mount... they get bent and compressed in, so you can't fit the new parts
put it all togther but do nothing up beyond finger tight until its at ride height with the steering centered.
you need to get steering centred and toe in set sensibly before you move the car. otherwise the wheels will just tuck under and...... well you can't move it more than 1 foot either direction.
set the upper rear cam bolt with fat side facing outwards and front cam bolt washer with fat side facing in. this will give the car +camber and make it look daft, bit like a ballet dancer from the front, deal with this problem last when you set camber and castor.
not hard just time consuming
big hammers blocks etc
tension your clamp/press type balljoint splitter and hit the joint with big hammer to shock it into submission, you want the taper to vibrate loose.
if you can get the outer track rods undone and the idler and pitman arm off everything on the cross link can come off the car as one part and be rested on your block/anvil and be hit with a hammer to split the joint
the lower joints have an eye that is easy to aim at.. use the suspension to tension them. undo the nuts 2 turns and smack the eye with a hammer.
wind out suspension adjusters to remove tension before taking off the balljoint nuts.
it would be unwize to loose a finger or crush your hand at this point...still lots to do...
uppers can be done at the same time or with the whole stub and upper A arm off the car on your block/anvil/ back of vice
did the whole lot a couple of years back... well worth it.. even better with a steering box rebuild as well.
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
tool kit
https://www.manciniracing.com/mopp4120200a.html
get the correct one with the right balljointsocket (small/A body)
basically your car is same as a pre 1973 US car
small balljoints
small stub axle taper
A body track rods with A body ends
if disk brake it will be either VE valiant solid mount caliper or VG-VH valiant pin slider kelsey hayes (style) caliper on a pin slider bracket with a 3.5 inch bertween centres mount. if its disk i'd expect them to be solid disks and the setup is for 14 inch wheels
if its been Upgraded it will have VJ valiant girlock claw slider calipers and potentially vented rotors.
if you have disk spindles any set up from AUS or US will fit provided you use the full setup i.e aussie rotors, aussie calipers and brackets, OR us rotors US calipers and brackets (but you will need a stbaxle taper sleeve for the US post 73 rotors) . austrlian calipers do not fit the small US bracket and vice versa about 1/16 of an inch out.
if stuck for parts just ask... i have some "was working, when removed " bits n bobs
Dave
https://www.manciniracing.com/mopp4120200a.html
get the correct one with the right balljointsocket (small/A body)
basically your car is same as a pre 1973 US car
small balljoints
small stub axle taper
A body track rods with A body ends
if disk brake it will be either VE valiant solid mount caliper or VG-VH valiant pin slider kelsey hayes (style) caliper on a pin slider bracket with a 3.5 inch bertween centres mount. if its disk i'd expect them to be solid disks and the setup is for 14 inch wheels
if its been Upgraded it will have VJ valiant girlock claw slider calipers and potentially vented rotors.
if you have disk spindles any set up from AUS or US will fit provided you use the full setup i.e aussie rotors, aussie calipers and brackets, OR us rotors US calipers and brackets (but you will need a stbaxle taper sleeve for the US post 73 rotors) . austrlian calipers do not fit the small US bracket and vice versa about 1/16 of an inch out.
if stuck for parts just ask... i have some "was working, when removed " bits n bobs
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
other option
undo upper balljoints
take off pitman arm (steering box mounted on chassis not k frame)
knock out torsion bars
lower the whole k frame with engine box steering/suspension complete
work on it
put it all back
thats the way the factory did it
need lift and jack and a friend to help...
Dave
undo upper balljoints
take off pitman arm (steering box mounted on chassis not k frame)
knock out torsion bars
lower the whole k frame with engine box steering/suspension complete
work on it
put it all back
thats the way the factory did it
need lift and jack and a friend to help...
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
And with all this kinetic energy and hammering, please wear your safety gear....
<center>
The name is Kev, nowadays known as Kevvy or Pommie C***!</center>
The name is Kev, nowadays known as Kevvy or Pommie C***!</center>
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
indeed a chunk of hammer in your eye is not good, they have to pull it out with a magnet...
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
- Ace Dropshot
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 18 8:57 am
- Location: Glasgow
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
Thanks Dave. Massive wealth of info there! Sorry taken me a while to respond - there has been an issue with notifications on the forum that I wasn't aware of.
My car is with the body shop now and the mechanic is going to have to do this job for me.
Plumkrazy are recommending this this complete kit, that could be a reliable option given I don't want to leave the car sitting there for long:
https://www.plumkrazygarage.com.au/prod ... 4478&_ss=r
What do you think?
Seems the ball joints thread in the upper control arm is damaged. These are pretty expensive to replace new. I also need to replace the wheel bearings, brake cylinders (guess these are available in UK) and brake cables, etc.
Do you have any of these parts 'working when removed'!?
@CLPete - anything useful in your spares pile?
Thanks
My car is with the body shop now and the mechanic is going to have to do this job for me.
Plumkrazy are recommending this this complete kit, that could be a reliable option given I don't want to leave the car sitting there for long:
https://www.plumkrazygarage.com.au/prod ... 4478&_ss=r
What do you think?
Seems the ball joints thread in the upper control arm is damaged. These are pretty expensive to replace new. I also need to replace the wheel bearings, brake cylinders (guess these are available in UK) and brake cables, etc.
Do you have any of these parts 'working when removed'!?
@CLPete - anything useful in your spares pile?
Thanks
Aussie Chrysler VF Valiant "Scottish Val"
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
yes that kit is fine
you won't know what the upper A arm is like until you try to fit the new balljoint
the threads were minimal to start with and the new joint basically cuts its own as it goes in
wind it in up to the specified torque...NO MORE unless it is not seated down as far as it goes, which may not be all the way i it is a littl bit wonky
if it won't get to specified torque you can risk it as long as its tight OR two spot welds between top case and arm will work...
or pick up a different set of arms
id do my best not to change the uppers unless you really need to.... clean them out and re grease.
if replacing balljoints these would do https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... ondition=4
I'll have a dig as well...
Dave
you won't know what the upper A arm is like until you try to fit the new balljoint
the threads were minimal to start with and the new joint basically cuts its own as it goes in
wind it in up to the specified torque...NO MORE unless it is not seated down as far as it goes, which may not be all the way i it is a littl bit wonky
if it won't get to specified torque you can risk it as long as its tight OR two spot welds between top case and arm will work...
or pick up a different set of arms
id do my best not to change the uppers unless you really need to.... clean them out and re grease.
if replacing balljoints these would do https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... ondition=4
I'll have a dig as well...
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
wheel bearings front... take em out, you can use the numbers on cone and roller to get in UK the stub axle is the same as a smallblljoint plymouth in US speak
wheel cyinders i just got mine from rock auto
you have 9 inch rear drums so you arelooking for cylinders off a slant 6 68 car with 9 inch drums RAYBESTOS WC34876 would do the job
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dod ... inder,1952
buy your brake shoe springs and hold down kit doge dart slant 6 1972 9 inch brakes make sure you get the right ones check your brakes are they 2 inch wide shoes? if so get the 2 inch kit for 9 inch drums rear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dod ... n+kit,1772
this gives you the better hold down kit. but you will need a bag of washers to stop the hold down studs falling through the massive holes in the back plate designed for the old squre hook and spring set up used on early 60s US cars and all aussie cars until 1974
seet clear of stuff in orange ecconomy sections and get daily driver stuff from rockauto.
any set of late 60s A body hand brake cables will work same set up as US so again dart or valiant on rockauto
same with the rear flexi hose
wheel cyinders i just got mine from rock auto
you have 9 inch rear drums so you arelooking for cylinders off a slant 6 68 car with 9 inch drums RAYBESTOS WC34876 would do the job
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dod ... inder,1952
buy your brake shoe springs and hold down kit doge dart slant 6 1972 9 inch brakes make sure you get the right ones check your brakes are they 2 inch wide shoes? if so get the 2 inch kit for 9 inch drums rear
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dod ... n+kit,1772
this gives you the better hold down kit. but you will need a bag of washers to stop the hold down studs falling through the massive holes in the back plate designed for the old squre hook and spring set up used on early 60s US cars and all aussie cars until 1974
seet clear of stuff in orange ecconomy sections and get daily driver stuff from rockauto.
any set of late 60s A body hand brake cables will work same set up as US so again dart or valiant on rockauto
same with the rear flexi hose
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
- Ace Dropshot
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 18 8:57 am
- Location: Glasgow
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
3 inch drums!? I guess these must have been upgraded as the fronts are disc, which I think were not standard either.
Aussie Chrysler VF Valiant "Scottish Val"
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
yeah look at the swept patch on the drum they take the 2 inch shoes
you have a bit of space in that drum to fit in th axle flange and fill the gap all the way to the back plate....
the fronts will be 1 of 3 types of disc brake as standard or slight upgrade due to UK parts availbility , and your car, given that all of the 2 doors were REGALs is an upmarket gig.. it would have had either
the VE style calipers....option on VC and VE cars and early VF (most UK would have had them) solid rotors mainly small bolt pattern
DBA or PBR...?? (This is most likley)
or the very late VF, standard VG and VH style claw bracket with the caliper sliding on PINS and bushes. VG had 2 part rotor and hub with solid rotors. VH had 2 part hub and rotor with vented rotor. The vented rotors were all big PCD 5 on 4.5 inch kelsey hayse made. Similar to very early mustang 64 1/2
or as per many UK cars upgraded (or sideways move due to easier avilability of parts) VJ valiant claw bracket with floating caliper. made by Girling Lockheed marked GIRLOCK on the bracket these were used on fords and holdens as well......
Show us yer brakes and i'll telll you what you have.
all need a brake bias for safe use.... the cars are really too light in the rear and too heavy up front to continue to use the same sized rear drums that were used when they were drums all round.
the only cars that persisted with 4 drums were the base models with rubber floor mats tiny engines and no heater... all the way up to about 1974. you really had to be a skin flint not to get the disk brakes.
the US on the other hand did not really see the light and go disk brakes for all but the most insistent luddites until post 73...
Parts are availble for all 3 types and any combination
http://www.sunburybrakes.com.au/
Dave
you have a bit of space in that drum to fit in th axle flange and fill the gap all the way to the back plate....
the fronts will be 1 of 3 types of disc brake as standard or slight upgrade due to UK parts availbility , and your car, given that all of the 2 doors were REGALs is an upmarket gig.. it would have had either
the VE style calipers....option on VC and VE cars and early VF (most UK would have had them) solid rotors mainly small bolt pattern
DBA or PBR...?? (This is most likley)
or the very late VF, standard VG and VH style claw bracket with the caliper sliding on PINS and bushes. VG had 2 part rotor and hub with solid rotors. VH had 2 part hub and rotor with vented rotor. The vented rotors were all big PCD 5 on 4.5 inch kelsey hayse made. Similar to very early mustang 64 1/2
or as per many UK cars upgraded (or sideways move due to easier avilability of parts) VJ valiant claw bracket with floating caliper. made by Girling Lockheed marked GIRLOCK on the bracket these were used on fords and holdens as well......
Show us yer brakes and i'll telll you what you have.
all need a brake bias for safe use.... the cars are really too light in the rear and too heavy up front to continue to use the same sized rear drums that were used when they were drums all round.
the only cars that persisted with 4 drums were the base models with rubber floor mats tiny engines and no heater... all the way up to about 1974. you really had to be a skin flint not to get the disk brakes.
the US on the other hand did not really see the light and go disk brakes for all but the most insistent luddites until post 73...
Parts are availble for all 3 types and any combination
http://www.sunburybrakes.com.au/
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
picture of brake stuff here
this is what you will have had as standard orginal
PBR caliper solid rotor
https://www.powerbrakes.com.au/shop/vf% ... roducts/1/?
but all fit all if you have the calipers any bracketry necessary and the hubs and rotors that go with the calipers
provided you cater for the change in PCD at the end of VG
Dave
this is what you will have had as standard orginal
PBR caliper solid rotor
https://www.powerbrakes.com.au/shop/vf% ... roducts/1/?
but all fit all if you have the calipers any bracketry necessary and the hubs and rotors that go with the calipers
provided you cater for the change in PCD at the end of VG
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Front suspension kit - VF
if really stuck i belive austin princess calipers will fit.
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying