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Spent hours on here......
Hemi Runner v GS Stage 1....Who's King?
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MilesnMiles
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
Interesting, but riddled with inaccuracies.
The second shootout took ages, nearly six years, to set up because the NHOA couldn't find anyone willing to race their car and get beaten by a Buick. Eventually, they found an ex race car and shipped it down to Bowling Green. The race was supposed to take place on sticky street tyres supplied by MCR, but one of the set supplied for the Buick had a puncture, so the Buick raced on real street tyres.
With the results standing at one all, many folk were keen to see a third and deciding shootout, but the hemi folk could see the writing on the wall, seeing how they had barely edged the Buick in Round Two, and ran for cover.
Eventually, a hemi owner in Canada said he was willing to bring his hemiCuda to a track in Canada and race a Buick. The Duabo brothers pitched up with their GSX and MCR went to cover the event. In the first race, the hemi redlit and lost badly to the GSX. The hemi owner promptly stuck his car back on the trailer and refused to race again for the other two rounds. There is some great video of everyone, his friends, the magazine guys, the track guys, trying to get him to take the back off and race again, but he was too chicken.
MCR then fudged it by saying that as it hadn't been a best of three race, it didn't really count, so they never ran the story. Bizarrely, it appeared in a Finnish muscle car magazine as they had sent a journalist all the way to Canada to cover it.
The moral being, if you are racing in a best of three and lose the first race, trailer your car and have the whole race declared null and void.
Greg Gessler races succesfully in FAST (he won the first three Year One events, I believe). He is a great cylinder head guy and even does a lot of the MoPar racers too.
Dave Dudek can really get his cars to go, and his Challenger was awesome, despite being a clone in a field of genuine cars.
The Stage1 - hemi thing will rumble on.
Roy Badie, with his ill advised 'a Stage1 Buick runs like it is tied to a tree' letter put Buick right at the top of the muscle car listings, and, simultanously, killed the hemi myth forever.
Nobody is afraid of a hemi anymore ... and a highly developed, specially designed factory race engine was humbled by a 455 designed to haul around deuce and a quarters.
The second shootout took ages, nearly six years, to set up because the NHOA couldn't find anyone willing to race their car and get beaten by a Buick. Eventually, they found an ex race car and shipped it down to Bowling Green. The race was supposed to take place on sticky street tyres supplied by MCR, but one of the set supplied for the Buick had a puncture, so the Buick raced on real street tyres.
With the results standing at one all, many folk were keen to see a third and deciding shootout, but the hemi folk could see the writing on the wall, seeing how they had barely edged the Buick in Round Two, and ran for cover.
Eventually, a hemi owner in Canada said he was willing to bring his hemiCuda to a track in Canada and race a Buick. The Duabo brothers pitched up with their GSX and MCR went to cover the event. In the first race, the hemi redlit and lost badly to the GSX. The hemi owner promptly stuck his car back on the trailer and refused to race again for the other two rounds. There is some great video of everyone, his friends, the magazine guys, the track guys, trying to get him to take the back off and race again, but he was too chicken.
MCR then fudged it by saying that as it hadn't been a best of three race, it didn't really count, so they never ran the story. Bizarrely, it appeared in a Finnish muscle car magazine as they had sent a journalist all the way to Canada to cover it.
The moral being, if you are racing in a best of three and lose the first race, trailer your car and have the whole race declared null and void.
Greg Gessler races succesfully in FAST (he won the first three Year One events, I believe). He is a great cylinder head guy and even does a lot of the MoPar racers too.
Dave Dudek can really get his cars to go, and his Challenger was awesome, despite being a clone in a field of genuine cars.
The Stage1 - hemi thing will rumble on.
Roy Badie, with his ill advised 'a Stage1 Buick runs like it is tied to a tree' letter put Buick right at the top of the muscle car listings, and, simultanously, killed the hemi myth forever.
Nobody is afraid of a hemi anymore ... and a highly developed, specially designed factory race engine was humbled by a 455 designed to haul around deuce and a quarters.
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Anonymous
Just in case anyone is interested in the F.A.S.T. stuff, or stock appearing, someone put together some lists of the fastest cars. I think these are the fastest times run, as opposed to the winners of the events or shoutouts.
There are some names in there from way back, like Jim Mino and his Firebird and Bob Karakashian with his Superbee from the very first NMCA shootout back in 1986, which the Firebird won over the Bee.
Big blocks
Small blocks
20 Fastest small blocks
There are some names in there from way back, like Jim Mino and his Firebird and Bob Karakashian with his Superbee from the very first NMCA shootout back in 1986, which the Firebird won over the Bee.
Big blocks
Small blocks
20 Fastest small blocks
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Anonymous
If anyone is interested in the FAST or stock appearing stuff, here are the two forums:
http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36
http://forum.yearone.com/default.asp
All the best
http://www.v8buick.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36
http://forum.yearone.com/default.asp
All the best
Hemi /Buick whatever, lets face it, not much chance of anything catching the ZL1 cars, unless they made 'em carry another 100lbs on the nose. And since when was a 'vette a muscle car? If that's in then why no Shelby Cobras? Oh yes that's a sports car isn't it...
“This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin’ around”
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Anonymous
The top ten small blocks make interesting reading:
3 Chevrolets
3 Studebakers (eat your heart out, Ivor
)
2 Oldsmobiles
1 Pontiac
1 Plymouth
Or the top twenty
8 Chevrolets
3 Studebakers
2 Fords
2 Oldsmobiles
2 Pontaics
1 AMC
1 Dodge
1 Plymouth
What gets interesting with the big blocks is that, as time goes on and folk get better at, em, massaging their 'stockness', the engines that were designed as racing engines take over ... the 426 hemi and the Mark IV big block. The others put up valiant effort, MoPar RB blocks and the (very) occasional Buick, but its a racing engine show.
No Fords either, I guess because Boss 429 Mustangers don't want to or can't race. It would be nice to see at least one in there just for comparison sake.
The 'massaging' can be extreme. Extrude honed exhaust manifolds that are paper thin, and get binned after each event, etc, etc...
It is a shame Chris Leslie isn't on the board or well enough as he was very into this.
I think the closest the Buick-hemi thing got to being really 'stock' was Round 2, although, the hemi owner's (who flew down to Bowling Green in his Lear Jet) crew caused the Buick guys concern when they asked how much hp the Buick engine made on the dyno, considering it only had had its inlet manifold off the week before to make sure the cam was okay, and had never been out of the car its whole life.
In the Hot Rod article (above) you can tell that there is a whole lot of 'massaging' going on from the sidebars, and I don't believe for one minute that the Buick is 455ci.
All the best
3 Chevrolets
3 Studebakers (eat your heart out, Ivor
)2 Oldsmobiles
1 Pontiac
1 Plymouth
Or the top twenty
8 Chevrolets
3 Studebakers
2 Fords
2 Oldsmobiles
2 Pontaics
1 AMC
1 Dodge
1 Plymouth
What gets interesting with the big blocks is that, as time goes on and folk get better at, em, massaging their 'stockness', the engines that were designed as racing engines take over ... the 426 hemi and the Mark IV big block. The others put up valiant effort, MoPar RB blocks and the (very) occasional Buick, but its a racing engine show.
No Fords either, I guess because Boss 429 Mustangers don't want to or can't race. It would be nice to see at least one in there just for comparison sake.
The 'massaging' can be extreme. Extrude honed exhaust manifolds that are paper thin, and get binned after each event, etc, etc...
It is a shame Chris Leslie isn't on the board or well enough as he was very into this.
I think the closest the Buick-hemi thing got to being really 'stock' was Round 2, although, the hemi owner's (who flew down to Bowling Green in his Lear Jet) crew caused the Buick guys concern when they asked how much hp the Buick engine made on the dyno, considering it only had had its inlet manifold off the week before to make sure the cam was okay, and had never been out of the car its whole life.
In the Hot Rod article (above) you can tell that there is a whole lot of 'massaging' going on from the sidebars, and I don't believe for one minute that the Buick is 455ci.
All the best
Oh no, not those Paxton supercharged Larks coming back to haunt me!
On a more serious note, I love this "stock" style racing because it brings with it a whole new level of ingenuity as to how you can cheat...I heard that some of the racers have commissioned the manufacture of red line cross ply tyres, in a super soft compound.
On a more serious note, I love this "stock" style racing because it brings with it a whole new level of ingenuity as to how you can cheat...I heard that some of the racers have commissioned the manufacture of red line cross ply tyres, in a super soft compound.
I am so bored every time this old chestnut raises its head.
What a load of rubbish Sandy does write sometimes. This Buick vs Hemi conflict only exists in the mind of Buick enthusiasts with a chip on their shoulder. Hemi owners don’t give a damn.
Is it common knowledge that Hemi owners drive around in fear that a Buick may pull up alongside them and give them a hiding? – I don’t think so.
When you look at the Hemi’s achievements over more than 40 years in Nascar, Pro Stock, Super Stock, Top Fuel, Drag Boats, Land Speed records, and more, as well as some of the toughest street cars on the planet, then look at the Buick 455, - where is it? The answer is nowhere.
I am not saying the Buick 455 engine is not a good engine, - it is, so are the big Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mopar (wedge) motors, any of these can be strong opponents.- But they are all on the second rung of the ladder.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, and nothing is going to persuade me (or any other right thinking person) any different:
The best engines of the Musclecar era were the big block Chevy and the Chrysler Hemi.!
What a load of rubbish Sandy does write sometimes. This Buick vs Hemi conflict only exists in the mind of Buick enthusiasts with a chip on their shoulder. Hemi owners don’t give a damn.
Is it common knowledge that Hemi owners drive around in fear that a Buick may pull up alongside them and give them a hiding? – I don’t think so.
When you look at the Hemi’s achievements over more than 40 years in Nascar, Pro Stock, Super Stock, Top Fuel, Drag Boats, Land Speed records, and more, as well as some of the toughest street cars on the planet, then look at the Buick 455, - where is it? The answer is nowhere.
I am not saying the Buick 455 engine is not a good engine, - it is, so are the big Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mopar (wedge) motors, any of these can be strong opponents.- But they are all on the second rung of the ladder.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, and nothing is going to persuade me (or any other right thinking person) any different:
The best engines of the Musclecar era were the big block Chevy and the Chrysler Hemi.!
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Rogue Trooper
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