Rear Axles.
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- Trigger_Andy
- Posts: 7867
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Rear Axles.
Anyone ever swapped an A-Body 8 3/4" Axle into an Aussie Charger? I see the A Bodys come in at 57 1/8" Wide Drum to Drum but Im not sure what the Chargers are? I'll suspect they are wider?
I might be getting my hands on a very rusted out RHD rusted out Barracuda, but it looks like the rear axle is still there. Which would make it a Suregrip.
I might be getting my hands on a very rusted out RHD rusted out Barracuda, but it looks like the rear axle is still there. Which would make it a Suregrip.
I'm here because Im not all there!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Re: Rear Axles.
the spring perches are in the wrong place by an inch or more
you could move them or the springs..
suggest moving the perches is best bet. the axle is a little bit shorter so with the right wheel offset and tyres you will get a bit more tyre under the back
you do end up with 10 or 11 inch drums
benefit... parts easy to get from rockauto
drawback the 9 inch drums on there originally used to lock up as soon as you looked at the brake peddle. 10 or 11 inch will potentially be too big
mid 60s B body is about the same width axle as the original and it has spring perches that are only 1/4 to 1/2 inch out so it bolts up
no idea if you can use the same prop shaft length but if the US axle has a small dodge yoke and many many did and still do, it would bolt up to the original prop. but as i say prop shaft length wise not sure.....
60s B body axle is basically a bolt in provided you don't go mad on tyres and check the depth that the trans yoke goes in
i.e compare axle centre line to tip of the pinion yoke on both axles if they are within a 1/4 - 1/2 inch you will probably be ok yoke at trans usually sticks out a bit past the bellows on the old style seals, to allow in out movement as suspension winds up and down...
if the back of the joint Bananarama! the bellows when yer mate jumps up and down in the boot you will rip it off.
flat seal could be used or get prop shortened
if the yoke doesn't go in far enough you risk trashing the transmission
the whole stability of the rear end of the gear train is dependent on the bush in the end of the tail housing keeping the yoke centred. to stay centred it needs full engagement of the splines across quite a length of the output shaft
that bush in the end.... think of it doing a similar job to a crank main bearing..... clean yoke smooth seal surface decent bush decent seal....
Dave
you could move them or the springs..
suggest moving the perches is best bet. the axle is a little bit shorter so with the right wheel offset and tyres you will get a bit more tyre under the back
you do end up with 10 or 11 inch drums
benefit... parts easy to get from rockauto
drawback the 9 inch drums on there originally used to lock up as soon as you looked at the brake peddle. 10 or 11 inch will potentially be too big
mid 60s B body is about the same width axle as the original and it has spring perches that are only 1/4 to 1/2 inch out so it bolts up
no idea if you can use the same prop shaft length but if the US axle has a small dodge yoke and many many did and still do, it would bolt up to the original prop. but as i say prop shaft length wise not sure.....
60s B body axle is basically a bolt in provided you don't go mad on tyres and check the depth that the trans yoke goes in
i.e compare axle centre line to tip of the pinion yoke on both axles if they are within a 1/4 - 1/2 inch you will probably be ok yoke at trans usually sticks out a bit past the bellows on the old style seals, to allow in out movement as suspension winds up and down...
if the back of the joint Bananarama! the bellows when yer mate jumps up and down in the boot you will rip it off.
flat seal could be used or get prop shortened
if the yoke doesn't go in far enough you risk trashing the transmission
the whole stability of the rear end of the gear train is dependent on the bush in the end of the tail housing keeping the yoke centred. to stay centred it needs full engagement of the splines across quite a length of the output shaft
that bush in the end.... think of it doing a similar job to a crank main bearing..... clean yoke smooth seal surface decent bush decent seal....
Dave
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
Re: Rear Axles.
the new axle will be worth more if it is a plate/clutch sure grip than if it is a cone sure grip
i think cone sure grrips were a 70s thing and may ony have been in 8 1/4 rather than 8 3/4 . the cone ones are supposed to be great for snow and greasy roads not ideal for drag racing, and dependent on type once worn out can't easily be rebuilt when the centre case is worn its scrap
i think cone sure grrips were a 70s thing and may ony have been in 8 1/4 rather than 8 3/4 . the cone ones are supposed to be great for snow and greasy roads not ideal for drag racing, and dependent on type once worn out can't easily be rebuilt when the centre case is worn its scrap
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
- Trigger_Andy
- Posts: 7867
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Rear Axles.
Thanks once again Dave.
If I get my hands on this RHD FB sitting in the field I'll flog the axle or swap it for a 65-67 B Body one then.
Im sure the Sure Grips in these Barracuda's are the Clutch type, but could well be wrong. ![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
If I get my hands on this RHD FB sitting in the field I'll flog the axle or swap it for a 65-67 B Body one then.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
I'm here because Im not all there!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
- mopar_mark
- Posts: 6709
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 06 8:01 pm
- Location: Windlesham, Surrey
Re: Rear Axles.
I know Jerry’s 69 C Body Fury had an 8 3/4 Cone style rear end ...
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
- Trigger_Andy
- Posts: 7867
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Rear Axles.
Original to it though? NV, seems like from '69 both types where available.mopar_mark wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 20 11:29 pmI know Jerry’s 69 C Body Fury had an 8 3/4 Cone style rear end ...
I'm here because Im not all there!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Re: Rear Axles.
that makes prefect sense....you would expect them to be in the Posher cars, less likely to be gunned from one set of lights to the next and supposed to be slightly less abrupt in the application of torque biasing mainly working better with less traction at both tyres... snowy rainy muddy etc
might have phased em in or, it was a who can supply what and when thing, cone are Borg Warner designed dunno if they had anything to do with the plate/clutch version.
if it was a separate cone and side gear one its a prime candidate to be rebuilt and live again..the other type with the i piece cone and side gear it makes more sense to buy a new one..
BW still made little versions of them in oz but the company has changed hands so many times BW - British Tyre & Rubber (BTR in receivership under Grant Thornton for years)- Spice Axle Australia - Dana Corp and the dana corp site doesn't list any anymore, so i guess the factory went down the tubes along with the rest of the Aussie car industry...their T5 T56 etc gearbox factory closed i know that
might have phased em in or, it was a who can supply what and when thing, cone are Borg Warner designed dunno if they had anything to do with the plate/clutch version.
if it was a separate cone and side gear one its a prime candidate to be rebuilt and live again..the other type with the i piece cone and side gear it makes more sense to buy a new one..
BW still made little versions of them in oz but the company has changed hands so many times BW - British Tyre & Rubber (BTR in receivership under Grant Thornton for years)- Spice Axle Australia - Dana Corp and the dana corp site doesn't list any anymore, so i guess the factory went down the tubes along with the rest of the Aussie car industry...their T5 T56 etc gearbox factory closed i know that
The Greater Knapweed near the Mugwort by the Buckthorn tree is dying
- mopar_mark
- Posts: 6709
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 06 8:01 pm
- Location: Windlesham, Surrey
Re: Rear Axles.
Yes, it was originalTrigger_Andy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 20 5:30 amOriginal to it though? NV, seems like from '69 both types where available.mopar_mark wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 20 11:29 pmI know Jerry’s 69 C Body Fury had an 8 3/4 Cone style rear end ...
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
Re: Rear Axles.
I realise this is a dead thread, but adding a bit more information for anyone reading it for reference...
The '60s B-body sedans had two different axle lengths, but they were just under an inch different to each other and basically both compatible with the VH and later Valiant rears. It is entirely possible that there's enough movement left in the yoke for the tailshaft length to be 'absorbed' into the gearbox. I know that when I fitted an 8¾ to an Aussie VG 2-door it worked out fine.
The difference in spring perch width is half in inch. In one fitment I've done I simply ground the hole in the spring perch in the appropriate direction for a quarter of an inch on each side with a burr. Of course, you do this carefully so you don't vary the track on one side compared to the other.
Where the difference between the early and late Australian Valiant spring perch comes from is that the springs are angled outwards by about two inches, the front mount for the spring is in the original spot, but the rear hangers are 2" further apart. This makes for an inch difference in the spring perch width.
Using the B-body axles gives you a whole different situation with brakes compared to the 8¾ A-body setup. And it gives you more options, you can run 11" x 2.5" drums if you want (very common on pickups) or 10" x 2.5". There's also some C-body 11" x 2" drum setups around. Each require their own backing plates. Finned drums are readily available in the 2.5" wide drums in both 10" and 11".
Regarding the Sure Grips, up until about 1969 or 1970 the Dana Power Lok was the available unit. These are still serviced by Dana (clutch packs etc) and a good unit. But built for heavier cars. I'm of the mind, however, that the later Borg-Warner cone type is eminently suitable for the lighter cars that the Valiants are. They are a much bigger cone than was used in the Borg-Warner differential assembly as fitted to the cars originally.
The '60s B-body sedans had two different axle lengths, but they were just under an inch different to each other and basically both compatible with the VH and later Valiant rears. It is entirely possible that there's enough movement left in the yoke for the tailshaft length to be 'absorbed' into the gearbox. I know that when I fitted an 8¾ to an Aussie VG 2-door it worked out fine.
The difference in spring perch width is half in inch. In one fitment I've done I simply ground the hole in the spring perch in the appropriate direction for a quarter of an inch on each side with a burr. Of course, you do this carefully so you don't vary the track on one side compared to the other.
Where the difference between the early and late Australian Valiant spring perch comes from is that the springs are angled outwards by about two inches, the front mount for the spring is in the original spot, but the rear hangers are 2" further apart. This makes for an inch difference in the spring perch width.
Using the B-body axles gives you a whole different situation with brakes compared to the 8¾ A-body setup. And it gives you more options, you can run 11" x 2.5" drums if you want (very common on pickups) or 10" x 2.5". There's also some C-body 11" x 2" drum setups around. Each require their own backing plates. Finned drums are readily available in the 2.5" wide drums in both 10" and 11".
Regarding the Sure Grips, up until about 1969 or 1970 the Dana Power Lok was the available unit. These are still serviced by Dana (clutch packs etc) and a good unit. But built for heavier cars. I'm of the mind, however, that the later Borg-Warner cone type is eminently suitable for the lighter cars that the Valiants are. They are a much bigger cone than was used in the Borg-Warner differential assembly as fitted to the cars originally.
- Trigger_Andy
- Posts: 7867
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Rear Axles.
Thank you very much for the reply Ray.
The info is very handy as the thread is not dead yet, just resting til I pull my finger out ands start actyivly looking for a rear axle.
I'll be pulling the 8 3/4 suregrip from my A-Body Barracuda soon before I sell the Barracuda. Its a shame it wont fit the Charger but perhaps someone will be looking for a swap for a suitable B-Body 8 3/4".
So where are you based Ray?
Andy
The info is very handy as the thread is not dead yet, just resting til I pull my finger out ands start actyivly looking for a rear axle.
I'll be pulling the 8 3/4 suregrip from my A-Body Barracuda soon before I sell the Barracuda. Its a shame it wont fit the Charger but perhaps someone will be looking for a swap for a suitable B-Body 8 3/4".
So where are you based Ray?
Andy
I'm here because Im not all there!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Re: Rear Axles.
I too have been trying to figure this out. No-where can I find a listed measurement of the VH+ valiant axles perch to perch.
I had noticed though the early B body 8 3/4 seemed to be the closest to the valiant.
Good to see that confirmed, back to the swap meets.
I had noticed though the early B body 8 3/4 seemed to be the closest to the valiant.
Good to see that confirmed, back to the swap meets.
I am coming to believe a 56mph speed record is harder to achieve than a 400mph one!
Re: Rear Axles.
Did you not manage to get your hands on the rusty Barracuda Andy?
“This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin’ around”
- Trigger_Andy
- Posts: 7867
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Rear Axles.
Ive not had a chance to go down yet. Seem to spend half my life in quarantine and its only getting worse now that Sturgeon's imposed an 11 day quarantine for everyone returning to the UK. Even if the country (like Norway) has a vastly lower number of infections. ![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
I'm here because Im not all there!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Re: Rear Axles.
Ok. What year is it? If it’s a ‘68 I’m after some trim if there’s anything decent on it..
“This ain’t no party, this ain’t no disco, this ain’t no foolin’ around”
- Trigger_Andy
- Posts: 7867
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 04 10:27 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Rear Axles.
Ok cool.
I'll try and get now next time Im home. Think its a '69 though?
How it was and how it is now.![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
I'll try and get now next time Im home. Think its a '69 though?
How it was and how it is now.
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
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I'm here because Im not all there!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!
Save the tree's.........Burn Rubber!!